Qualities of a Good Poem

[Octagon]

Before I write another poem, I would like to know from the members of this board what the qualities of a good poem are.

Thank you.

[RAVENEYE]

Oh golly. That's a subjective topic. Taste in poetry varies so widely. Structure, no structure. Rhyme, no rhyme.

Here are my biggest peeves with poetry:

1. Rhyme schemes

Personally, I prefer modern and post-modern poetry, which usually doesn't rhyme. Sing-song rhymes make my skin crawl and my teeth clench. Sing-song rhymes are like swallowing a spoonful of honey.    Rhymed couplets used for anything but lighthearted poetry is the absolutely worst. Barf city.

If a poem rhymes, it ought to be subtle, almost unnoticeable, and never forced. Meaning the rhyme needs to be purposefully chosen rather than seeming to have just any ol' rhyming word plugged in, or a modern writer resorting to archaic phrasings to make the rhyme work. This is like swallowing syrup that's been sitting on the shelf for 200 years. Gross me out.

We live in 2022, not 1822. This is the post-modern era, not the Romantic era.

2. Angst

Any poem that reads like a junior-high student complaining about how horrible their life is, love life or otherwise. While exploring the bad things in life is very common in good poetry, angst poems contribute nothing in the way of deep insight, wisdom, unique ways of expressing the issue. They usually reek of cliches.

3. Preaching via poem

Just don't. If a poet wants to explore their beliefs on religious matters, political matters, etc. the poem ought not sound like someone standing on a soapbox talking down at the rest of the world about how awful it is. Passing off personal opinion as Truth. Which usually expresses itself as dry, didactic, and angsty.

Good examples to emulate:

* Naomi Shihab Nye in her collection 19 Varieties of Gazelle. She doesn't say how awful her Palestinian relatives are treated, etc. She paints individuals doing ordinary things, and suddenly the Palestinian people are real people, and readers outside that culture (if they have a heart) are filled with compassion for their situation. The poem "Fundamentalism" illustrates what I mean.

* Lucille Clifton in "Slave Ships." She doesn't say "Slavery is a sinful detriment to humanity." She paints the ships and the conditions on board and shows the reader how detrimental it is.

--> The situations painted in these poems make the argument FOR the poet.

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So I guess I've come at your question backwards, Octagon, and listed some of the things that I think make a bad poem, and why.

I'll flip it around to say this in the other direction ... things that make a poem enjoyable to me:

1. Subtle skillful rhymes, or no rhymes at all. Avoidance of archaic phrasings that humans haven't used in speech for 300 years.

2. Unique insights and illustrations about the universal issues all humans face.

3. thoughtful, striking illustrations to make unfamiliar viewpoints relatable. 

4. surprising but deliberate word combinations. (Sylvia Plath's poetry is a great example of over-the-top word combos)


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Now, what makes a good poem to you, Octagon? What do you not like in a poem? Who are your favorite poets?

[ScintillaMyntan]

I would say a poem needs to express its message in a way that differs from the normal way of talking about things. That could be through unusual or fancy word choice, through metaphor, through telling a story, or something else.

And it needs to be in verse and sound good. What makes a poem sound good is very subjective and there's more than one way to do it, but some possibilities are rhythm, rhyme, sticking to an established form, repetition, or having some sort of order or pattern. Or none of those and just having a smoothness. The point is the way it sounds has to seem deliberate.

[alliecartman248]

To add on to this, I think a poem that does a good job at expressing its message in a way that differs from the normal way is "To Drink" by Jane Hirshfield (https://poetry101.love/to-drink/).  As well, I think a good way to approach this as a new writer is to sit down and make a list of all the cliches you can think of that are associated with the theme of your poem, and then keep everything on the list out of your poem (for example, if the theme was love, you might put hearts, sparks, red, cupid on your list).

[pelwrath]

For me poetry needs to make the reader part of the poem or make them feel theye're watching it. Yes, writing has this as well but poetry relies on it. For me, poetry is a way for me to skirt my weakness of S,P,& G. to a point. It has it's rules but I find them much more structure than content related. The big thing about poetry I enjoy is it's flexability and openenss to experimentation and I love to experiment with poetry.

Poetry is similar topainting by numbers. The type of poem is your numbered drawing, yet you get to determine what colors corespond to which numbers. If you don't want any numbers, write a free verse poem, that has no structure.

Raveneye offers some excellent advice and so does Scyntilla. Yet remember that in poetry all rules can be broken. To that point, I'll suggest you checkout a poem by Alexander Pope called 'The Rape of Lock'. To me it's a poetic equivilent of Machiaveli's The Prince.

Read the poems in our oetry thread, if you haven't been. Comment on them, create when you feel comfortable.

[ScintillaMyntan]

Here's something that might help, actually: Checklist for Critiquing a Poem.

[Meth]

I personally love wordplay and metaphor, that's usually what makes me think one bit of writing is "poetic" and another is not. It's language that evokes the feeling rather than just getting the message across.

Time heals all wounds, but often it’s only by the application of the grave, and while we live some hurts live with us, burning, making us twist and turn to escape them. And as we twist, we turn into other men.
- Mark Lawrence

One of my favourite quotes and it's from a book rather than an actual poem. But it's from a book/series that I consider pure poetry.

Rhythm/cadence is also a big thing in poetic writing, and should be used to help evoke the intended emotion.

[RAVENEYE]

Oct 17, 2022 4:41:18 GMT -6 Meth said:

I personally love wordplay and metaphor, that's usually what makes me think one bit of writing is "poetic" and another is not. It's language that evokes the feeling rather than just getting the message across.

Time heals all wounds, but often it’s only by the application of the grave, and while we live some hurts live with us, burning, making us twist and turn to escape them. And as we twist, we turn into other men.
- Mark Lawrence

One of my favourite quotes and it's from a book rather than an actual poem. But it's from a book/series that I consider pure poetry.

Rhythm/cadence is also a big thing in poetic writing, and should be used to help evoke the intended emotion.

Agreed, all around. And I'm going to have to look up the source of this quote. Cuz, love it.


Edit: So ... looks like Mark Lawrence has several series out. Which do you recommend, Meth?


Edit again: Ohhhh! He wrote the Prince of Thorns books. I remember we had a discussion about these on Old LF and folks were like "It's too violent." So I gave it a miss. Not that I mind violent, but certain aspects of violent. Read these? Agree? Disagree?

[undawnted]

Poetry can be anything that you would dis/like.

I've been writing poetry for years and what attracts readers is authenticity. How do you convey your message? Is it mental, or emotional? What would you like your readers to feel after reading your poem?

In this case, the end justifies the means. Begin with what you would like your readers to feel, know, or ponder, then work back from there.

[RAVENEYE]

Jan 25, 2023 19:38:16 GMT -6 undawnted said:

 Begin with what you would like your readers to feel, know, or ponder, then work back from there.

Hmm, I like the idea of working backwards. I hadn't thought of it in those terms.