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Post by Valhalla Erikson on Nov 10, 2022 12:47:45 GMT -6
A bit of a sequel to my previous topic
So in my urban fantasy series my main protagonist David King operates as a superhero for hire in a town called Shepard. He'd help the townspeople tackle cases that are fantastical in nature. The basic concept is what if Superman were adopted by a semi-retired superhero? The hero in this story being his adopted mother Cody King. And if the town knows what David is but the people of the town has their own share of secrets themselves.
Instead of having a plethora of powers like flight, speed, or heat vision he just have super strength.
So the question is how can I make a Lawful Good character interesting to the reader?
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Post by Alatariel on Nov 10, 2022 14:44:31 GMT -6
A bit of a sequel to my previous topic So in my urban fantasy series my main protagonist David King operates as a superhero for hire in a town called Shepard. He'd help the townspeople tackle cases that are fantastical in nature. The basic concept is what if Superman were adopted by a semi-retired superhero? The hero in this story being his adopted mother Cody King. And if the town knows what David is but the people of the town has their own share of secrets themselves. Instead of having a plethora of powers like flight, speed, or heat vision he just have super strength. So the question is how can I make a Lawful Good character interesting to the reader? Do you watch Parks and Rec? My favorite show ever. But there's a character named Chris Trager played by Rob Lowe and he's lawful good and SUPER beloved. So, he's ultra positive and super encouraging of everyone around him, he's always happy and uplifting others with his positivity, he's extremely physically fit, and he always follows the rules. However, they also made him really bad at romantic relationships and not very self-aware of his other emotions like anger, sadness, or jealousy. So when he falls in love, he kinda biffs it and then feels sad and tries to be ultra positive to make the sad go away and ends up getting the flu and just spiraling. Not in a dark way but in a funny way that also gives him perspective. Highly recommend watching his arc in the show because he might be the only lawful good character I absolutely adore. Just because they are lawful good doesn't mean they are perfect. They can be bad at things, have trauma to work through, have quirky hobbies, an interesting upbringing, or an adorably naive worldview that has to be challenged through the story... Give your character lots of powers. All the powers. Make him see the world in black and white terms. Lawful or not lawful. This creates a lot of opportunities for growth and lots of conflict because the world doesn't work that way. There's a lot of nuance and things that may seem lawful aren't actually the right thing to do. He sounds emotionally unaware, too. That provides lots of ways to grow, too. |
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Post by Valhalla Erikson on Nov 10, 2022 15:48:54 GMT -6
A bit of a sequel to my previous topic So in my urban fantasy series my main protagonist David King operates as a superhero for hire in a town called Shepard. He'd help the townspeople tackle cases that are fantastical in nature. The basic concept is what if Superman were adopted by a semi-retired superhero? The hero in this story being his adopted mother Cody King. And if the town knows what David is but the people of the town has their own share of secrets themselves. Instead of having a plethora of powers like flight, speed, or heat vision he just have super strength. So the question is how can I make a Lawful Good character interesting to the reader? Do you watch Parks and Rec? My favorite show ever. But there's a character named Chris Trager played by Rob Lowe and he's lawful good and SUPER beloved. So, he's ultra positive and super encouraging of everyone around him, he's always happy and uplifting others with his positivity, he's extremely physically fit, and he always follows the rules. However, they also made him really bad at romantic relationships and not very self-aware of his other emotions like anger, sadness, or jealousy. So when he falls in love, he kinda biffs it and then feels sad and tries to be ultra positive to make the sad go away and ends up getting the flu and just spiraling. Not in a dark way but in a funny way that also gives him perspective. Highly recommend watching his arc in the show because he might be the only lawful good character I absolutely adore. Just because they are lawful good doesn't mean they are perfect. They can be bad at things, have trauma to work through, have quirky hobbies, an interesting upbringing, or an adorably naive worldview that has to be challenged through the story... Give your character lots of powers. All the powers. Make him see the world in black and white terms. Lawful or not lawful. This creates a lot of opportunities for growth and lots of conflict because the world doesn't work that way. There's a lot of nuance and things that may seem lawful aren't actually the right thing to do. He sounds emotionally unaware, too. That provides lots of ways to grow, too. This is a very good response! I've always found myself fascinated by putting genuinely good characters in a world that doesn't gel with their moral ideals and seeing how the character overcomes it. It's one of the reasons why I find Jon Snow one of my favorite characters in Game of Thrones because he'd normally be your textbook heroic fantasy character but he exists in a fantasy world where the rules don't cater to that particular character. I always thought Ben from Parks and Rec was a little of that too. |
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Post by ScintillaMyntan on Nov 12, 2022 9:27:01 GMT -6
I don't see why a lawful good character has to or even tends to be boring, honestly! The real world has lots of real, idiosyncratic people who are good, orderly, and law-abiding without being paladin stereotypes. "Lawful good" might be a codified thing for us thanks to D&D, but like every other piece of identity it's only a little part, if anything, of who someone is.
Basically I would make him interesting the way most any other character or real person could be interesting: psychological oddities, private conflicts, internal conflicts, unusual life history, as long as it all fits with what you already know about him.
Just brainstorming a little bit for fun:
• A superhero who cares a lot about morality, but his father has mildly dishonest business practices or something. The hero needs to reconcile his love of his father with his father's unscrupulosity and is sometimes angry at him, but hoping to turn him around
• A superhero who, before he came to Shepard, was courted by a political organization who wanted him to use his super strength to help their goals. Then they wanted him to carry out an assassination and he left because he didn't believe in political violence
• A superhero who's secretly terrified his fame and respect will eventually corrupt him. Every time he fights a bad guy, he spends the next few hours scared that he's not so different from the bad guys after all
Another angle, I guess, is to answer the question of how he became lawful good. Did something in his life before adoption inspire him that way? Was it the influence of his adopted mother? Or was he maybe not always so lawful and good and then resolved to change?
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Post by Valhalla Erikson on Nov 12, 2022 17:18:12 GMT -6
I don't see why a lawful good character has to or even tends to be boring, honestly! The real world has lots of real, idiosyncratic people who are good, orderly, and law-abiding without being paladin stereotypes. "Lawful good" might be a codified thing for us thanks to D&D, but like every other piece of identity it's only a little part, if anything, of who someone is. Basically I would make him interesting the way most any other character or real person could be interesting: psychological oddities, private conflicts, internal conflicts, unusual life history, as long as it all fits with what you already know about him. Just brainstorming a little bit for fun: • A superhero who cares a lot about morality, but his father has mildly dishonest business practices or something. The hero needs to reconcile his love of his father with his father's unscrupulosity and is sometimes angry at him, but hoping to turn him around • A superhero who, before he came to Shepard, was courted by a political organization who wanted him to use his super strength to help their goals. Then they wanted him to carry out an assassination and he left because he didn't believe in political violence • A superhero who's secretly terrified his fame and respect will eventually corrupt him. Every time he fights a bad guy, he spends the next few hours scared that he's not so different from the bad guys after all
Another angle, I guess, is to answer the question of how he became lawful good. Did something in his life before adoption inspire him that way? Was it the influence of his adopted mother? Or was he maybe not always so lawful and good and then resolved to change? That is something I'm seed planting within my story. The kind of people David interacts with aren't all bad people but do commit acts that don't gel with his own views which makes him scared if he'd be put into a situation where he'd have to break his code to save someone. |
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JohnPennman
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Post by JohnPennman on Jan 1, 2023 22:16:22 GMT -6
My two cents probably doesn't mean much but:
I despise paladin characters for the most part. I despise Jon Snow.
To me a perfect example of a paladin in today's times is Captain America, and the Flash.
They are both approachable. Any Tom, Dick, or Mary can ask these heroes for help, and if you saw either of them in a dark alley you'd breathe a sigh of relief. They are lights in the darkness, and in more than world devastating events. The Flash has a museum dedicated to him not only because he saves the city repeatedly but because he helps the little old lady across the street, and the cat down from the tree.
Small simple kindnesses will do more for your hero than any amount of saving the world.
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Post by saintofm on Jan 20, 2023 17:23:23 GMT -6
Lawful Good does not need to be lawful stupid as they say.
In the basic D&D alignment grid, Lawful needs rules, regulations, structure (they are the kid that needs to follow the instructions on the LEGO kit instead of the Chaotic person that would rather have that big bag of random pieces and build whatever comes to mind)
Good tries to do the right thing the right way, tend to be selfless, empathetic, and while they might like a good fight, they see battle and war as a means to use when a better solution does not exist. This does not mean they do not have a self-preservation streak or a selfish desire, nor do they not get jealous, or any other human issue. Nore does this mean they are incapable of making difficult decisions with no right answer.
The question is what is more important: Being good or Being lawful.
Good examples in my Opinion are:
1. Superman is a good one. Take a Look at the Man that Has Everything, ither the Alen More Story or the JSL episode inspired by it, or the film Superman vs the Elite.
2. Captain America: MCU Uiverse: This is the perffect Captain America, essentaly representing it at its best.
3. Black Panther: MCU: Chadwik, you were taken from us too soon but man did you give life to this charecter.
4. Commander DATA, Star Trek The Next Generation: He is on a quest to be more human, and so despite being an entity of logic (an android), and therefor very lawful, knows when to choose the right over what is expected.
5. Jet Black from the Anime Cowboy Bebop: He's more on the cynical side of things, but still holds on to the ideals of la, justice, and dedication to people.
6. Nicolas Angel form Hot Fuzz is another extreme end. Basically, he has to be more food than lawful, but otherwise the guy is sickeningly perfect.
7. ROBOCop (Murphy, and I am looking at the R rated 80's movies specifically). A by the books cop that was a happy family man that wanted to impress his kid. Made more so when his humanity was stolen from him and as turned against his will into a machine, and regains the good part of his Lawful GOod when he regains his humanity and comes to grips with his new life.
8. Duncan MacLeod of Clan Macleod, Highlander the Series: I remember seeing this as a kid. Tells you how old I am. e has a strong sense of loyalty, honor and morality. While this can definitely lead him to the honor before reason trope: , he will try to do the right thing even if it hurts him (emotionally if not physically).
9. Teal'c from Stargate SG-1: Interesting one as he defects form the Goa'uld that were his mansters, ad leads a rebellion against them. This said, he lives by a very strict cod of honor and a regimented one at that while he will question orders he won't disobey them. Also has marithoned Stat Wars 15 times.
10 Optimous Prime: When Done Right, should I say any more?
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Post by Valhalla Erikson on Jan 25, 2023 18:05:16 GMT -6
My two cents probably doesn't mean much but: I despise paladin characters for the most part. I despise Jon Snow. To me a perfect example of a paladin in today's times is Captain America, and the Flash. They are both approachable. Any Tom, Dick, or Mary can ask these heroes for help, and if you saw either of them in a dark alley you'd breathe a sigh of relief. They are lights in the darkness, and in more than world devastating events. The Flash has a museum dedicated to him not only because he saves the city repeatedly but because he helps the little old lady across the street, and the cat down from the tree. Small simple kindnesses will do more for your hero than any amount of saving the world. I find The Flash a very underrated superhero. It says something when even The Rogues outright respects him because of his principles. |
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Post by Valhalla Erikson on Feb 13, 2023 19:28:59 GMT -6
With the assistance of MidJourney I manage to construct a book cover for my novel. I want to give it that magical wonder that the Harry Potter books gave. It's in the rough draft stages so I'd like to see what you guys think of this.  David in this story starts out as 14. I've wrestled with making him 16 but 14 fits the direction where I want the character to go at the start of the story. That wide eyed childhood innocence and eagerness to embark on a heroic adventure. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2023 20:04:24 GMT -6
Focus on his insecurities. Most people are motivated more by their insecurities than anything else. What is he insecure about that pushes him to help people? Does he take responsibility for all the world's woes, beating himself up for the times he couldn't be there to save someone? Is he trying to make someone proud, trying to do more than they did becuase it was what was expected of him as a child and he never got the affirmation he needed?
There are people who will do the right things simply because it is the right thing to do, but they typicaly go through a period where they do the right thing because of some other reason, and then mature to doing it because it's right. Superman reached that level of maturity by the time he left home to become Superman. Spiderman hasn't reached that level of maturity yet. He feels the guilt of what he didn't do, and that drives him forward. Batman hasn't reached that level of maturity yet. He feels the pain of his parents' loss, and wants to stop people from having to feel that. Batman and Spiderman don't do the right thing because it's the right thing. They do it because of their insecurities.
And that could be why people don't like reading or watching Superman, unless they add in all this angst. Superman, the way he was intended, doesn't have insecurities. He just does the right thing because it's the right thing. If Clark Kent had no superpowers, he'd be a fireman. He'd be running into the burning building anyway. Because that's the type of person he is. And that should be MORE obvious today, with all the Superman knock offs. Homelander, Omniman or whtaever his name is, Brightburn. It isn't a matter of "Oh, he can't be hurt so of course he'll go fight the bad guys." No, Clark is the person you WANT to have that kind of power, because he's mature enough to know how to use it. He's Lawful Good, and he's mature about it.
But your character won't be mature. Your character will be young and naive. So why does he do what he does? What shapes his views of Right and Wrong? What are his major insecurities, and how do they drive him?
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Post by RAVENEYE on Feb 13, 2023 23:12:26 GMT -6
With the assistance of MidJourney I manage to construct a book cover for my novel. I want to give it that magical wonder that the Harry Potter books gave. It's in the rough draft stages so I'd like to see what you guys think of this. [image] David in this story starts out as 14. I've wrestled with making him 16 but 14 fits the direction where I want the character to go at the start of the story. That wide eyed childhood innocence and eagerness to embark on a heroic adventure. I like it! I'm curious about the dragon creature over his shoulder. What prompt/setting did you use for the animated look? Also, note, that at most self-publish places a book cover file needs to be in that 2:3 aspect range. (I assume you're wanting to go that route since you're designing your own cover.) |
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Post by Valhalla Erikson on Feb 14, 2023 0:23:41 GMT -6
With the assistance of MidJourney I manage to construct a book cover for my novel. I want to give it that magical wonder that the Harry Potter books gave. It's in the rough draft stages so I'd like to see what you guys think of this. [image] David in this story starts out as 14. I've wrestled with making him 16 but 14 fits the direction where I want the character to go at the start of the story. That wide eyed childhood innocence and eagerness to embark on a heroic adventure. I like it! I'm curious about the dragon creature over his shoulder. What prompt/setting did you use for the animated look? Also, note, that at most self-publish places a book cover file needs to be in that 2:3 aspect range. (I assume you're wanting to go that route since you're designing your own cover.) Didn't know that. That's good to know  To say anything about the dragon would be spoilers  |
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Post by Valhalla Erikson on Feb 14, 2023 0:26:35 GMT -6
Focus on his insecurities. Most people are motivated more by their insecurities than anything else. What is he insecure about that pushes him to help people? Does he take responsibility for all the world's woes, beating himself up for the times he couldn't be there to save someone? Is he trying to make someone proud, trying to do more than they did becuase it was what was expected of him as a child and he never got the affirmation he needed? There are people who will do the right things simply because it is the right thing to do, but they typicaly go through a period where they do the right thing because of some other reason, and then mature to doing it because it's right. Superman reached that level of maturity by the time he left home to become Superman. Spiderman hasn't reached that level of maturity yet. He feels the guilt of what he didn't do, and that drives him forward. Batman hasn't reached that level of maturity yet. He feels the pain of his parents' loss, and wants to stop people from having to feel that. Batman and Spiderman don't do the right thing because it's the right thing. They do it because of their insecurities. And that could be why people don't like reading or watching Superman, unless they add in all this angst. Superman, the way he was intended, doesn't have insecurities. He just does the right thing because it's the right thing. If Clark Kent had no superpowers, he'd be a fireman. He'd be running into the burning building anyway. Because that's the type of person he is. And that should be MORE obvious today, with all the Superman knock offs. Homelander, Omniman or whtaever his name is, Brightburn. It isn't a matter of "Oh, he can't be hurt so of course he'll go fight the bad guys." No, Clark is the person you WANT to have that kind of power, because he's mature enough to know how to use it. He's Lawful Good, and he's mature about it. But your character won't be mature. Your character will be young and naive. So why does he do what he does? What shapes his views of Right and Wrong? What are his major insecurities, and how do they drive him? As of right now, that is his primary motivation. |
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