Warhammer Old World: GW, Don't Screw This Up
Oct 30, 2023 1:22:23 GMT -6
Post by saintofm on Oct 30, 2023 1:22:23 GMT -6
Warhammer Fantasy is coming back! There is alot of cricket noises, so let me explain.
The flagship game for Games Workshop was Warhammer Fantasy. It started as a Dungeouns and Dragons Clone, but as of Second Edition went to its roots to table top wargamming. Its a kitchen sink of fantasy, with this being the reason orcs and goblins tend to be green in fiction.
However it didn't do so well financially in the last few years it was around, especially when compared to the cash cow that is Warhammer 40,000 so decided to end the franchise. They would still have the novels and what not, but they wanted to move on to Age of Sigmar which had its problems. AOS is fun, but some players saw it as a cash grab and alot of us try to forget GW's attempt at ending Warhammer Fantasy with a bang, The End Times (long story short a number of characters were given character assassinations, while others were given undignified ends for how major they are in their given factions).
But they are bringing it back. About 9 armies have been announced to get books, which will at the bottom.
My next fe possts will be what I think of the various armies they are starting out with, the prose and cones of the different units, how to make them work and how to beat them, and what stuff from AOS and Total War they can add into it, as well as other ideas I might have. And concerns I have with them. I would like your thoughts on this from both Warhammer fans that also have their own Two cents to pitch in and help illuminate this more, and none warhammer fans that have questions and their own ideas.
While this is all exciting for me come Appril, I have to temper this with my experience with GW.
1. This will be expensive. There is a reason alot of use go to thingverse or etsy or third party companies. GW is infamous for if they can make it they will make it price. Despite what, 2 recessions since I started playing in the mid 2000's, and a plague, they have not given up on this. Even as they go to cheaper materials (lead to pewter, pewter to plastic) and even as they get factories to different parts of the world, it will coast you an arm and a leg. You will be wanting to field twenty guys for one unit but you will be paying the price of a new video game and all its DLC. Part of the cost can be mitigated with starter boxes, but its alot of upfront cast for a game you might not be committed to. Made worse is its part of their Forge World Branch, which do their very expensive stuff. Highly detailed and often over powered stuff in the game, but pricy. To compare this with say reaper: A Pewter mini of the same size and grade will set me back 5 or 10 bucks, and when they switch to plastic and resin the price dropped dramatically. Its 18 to 40 for the same thing with GW.
2. Its not the first time they made and dropped a game before, and it can happen again.
3. Still bitter about the End Times.
Empire: Reissuance Holy Roman Empire with some eliminants of in tech to Napoleonic War Erra and even American Civil War. Well Balanced human army and the face of the game. Generals are famous for riding on griffons. The Steam Tank and Hellblaster Volley Guns are its most notorious units for how destructive they are.
Warriors of Chaos: Heavy Vikings, they are a Heavy Metal Album given form. Frank Frezetta's Death Dealer is most likely their daddy, and anti paladins wish they could be them. While there are Conan esk barbarians, the namesake and where alot of units fall under are heavily armored walking tanks that are just a few points from being hero level characters, and the ones that are hero and lord level can punch a monster in the face and win. They can be chaos undivided, or take one of the aspects of the four CHaos Gods
Khorn: Likes Honor, bravery, and honesty. Also a god of murder, anger, and hate. "KILL! MAIM! BURN!" and "Blood for the Blood God!" come from this guy. See lots of reds and Brass in his color motifs, and he will be the hammer of the army.
Slannesh: The Prince of Pleasure, She Who Thirst, the reason we know this is not going to be a game that is Pegggy 16/M for Mature rating in video games. While they like the creativity, art, refinement, and love...they also have a thing for lust, gluttony, extreme self indulgence, and their penchant for trying new things get to the point a Cenobite from the Hellraiser franchise would tell this god to take it down a notch. Also have to wonder if the LGBTQ+ community ever took Umbridge with them as Gender is whatever suits their mood that second, and alot more stuff. Lots of Pinks, purples and florescent colors.
Tzentch: I think the T is silent, but you never know with a guy who personifies the meme "Just as planned." Heck, you might have seen one of them with his greater daemons, a big bird person with flowing robes. A god of knowledge, the pursuit of knowledge, change, hope, and of course Magic you'd think maybe he's on the up and up. Then again, that was just as planned as Treachery and lies are in his domain, as the search for darkest corners of knowledge, ad his change can be anything from usurping a good ruler to mutations that turn you into an eldritch abomination (they are called the Forsaken and the Chaos Spawn). Really like blues, but he doesn't mind pink and a few other colors to crop up.
Nurgle: A jolly fellow that loves his followers so much he is affectionately called "Pappa Nurgle." That said he looks like a towering diseased ridden tumor, a his domain is despair, fear, death, and most of all: Disease. His plagues ravaged entire civilizations. That said he is also a lovable goof, that likes a good hearty joke, and the despair gives way to stubborn resilience; those that survive his "gifts" become very tanky in the amount of pain and damage they can take, and those that do not become his legions of plauge bearer demons. Lots of Green and other colors associated with rot and decay.
Beasts of Chaos: The redheaded stepchildren of chaos, both in lore and how GW treated them. I think they finally got the love they deserved from development when Warhammer: Total War 2 came, and Age of Sigmar. Lots of satyrs, minitours, and lot of monsters. GOres and Ungores are mostly goats and minotours are mostly bulls, despite they could be alot of different animals, and then they attach horns. What they lack in armor they make up for in tenacity, ablities to ambush, and a large nuber of monsters. Giants, Giant Minotours, cyclopes that act as mobile catapults, ad more.
High Elves: ALot of Greek and Roman influence in the look. Long lived and prideful, they have alot of elite units, great speed and accuracy in attacks. I was a dark elf player, but even I can see they have alot of potential and fun. Chariots pulled by lions, phenoxies, three different types of dragons people can ride, lots of cavalry, and some of the best magic in the game not Tzeentch. Like Empire and Warriors of Chaos, they can be pretty good for new players. I will be interested in sseeing how they update them.
Wood Elves: The best shooting units in the game, period! Most of the army are Legolas' understudies when it comes to their skill with a bow, and Tree Beard. There are other units, including some decent monster hunters, but they are famous for their bowmanship for a reason. The forest is their home and while it can hinder other units, it makes them stronger. A good thing as most of them are either unarmored or lightly armored units. Of the tree folk, you have dryads that come inn skirmishers that rip foes limb from limbs, ogre sied Tree Kin, and the Treemen which, well, if you seen The Two Towers or played D&D you get the idea. I can see some learning curve for new players, but they will be fun.
Dwarves: They work hard, drink hard, play hard, drink hard, fight hard, drink hard. The working-class folk, with Viking some Scottish. They are probably one of the few armies that will have range units that can handle close combat. What they lack in speed in movement and initiative, they make up for in toughness, and enough bravery to not want to leave the fight. Like high elves, this will an army of elites. And holy crap, if the artillery on the Empire list is going to be a problem, this army will destroy you if you do not. And they have some good melee units as well, with Hammerers being the hammer and Iron Breakers being the Anvil that can tank most hits. Heck, they have gyrocopters as war machines and Greek Fire. They may not have magic in spell form per say, they will have the best variety of magical weapons, many can be taken by multiple characters due to the rune system allowing you to mix and match different runes for different effects.
Orcs and Goblins: Orc are what Raider fans get accused of being and what Philadelphia Eagle Fans turn out to be for those in the USA like me, and for those into the World Sport: Football Hooligans. Goblins and Squeeker rage embodied. And while they may be terrifying in lore, they are very funny. Cockney accented brutes that like a good scrap. Orcs hit hard and are hard to hit, coming in normal, Savage (cave men) and Black Orc (Urikah on steroids) varieties and will go to battle on Boars and boar pulle dchariots, adn even ride wyverns. Goblins come in mass, the swarm or hoard army, and what they lack in skill of courage they make up for in shere numbers. THey can ride wolves, spiders the size of wolves that can ride on stuff, wolf pulled chariots, spiders that can get as big as Rhinoes, and even a spider that is big enough to step over a house. Others, the night goblins, lack courage but make up for in crazyness. They will throw nets to hld people, unleash PCP addled goblins swingign the ball and chains used in the Hammerthrow at enemy units, acting as a living blender, and go to battle with beasts called squigs (like a beachball shaped and size beasty with squat legs that help it bounce around, and a maw of teeth that make up most of the body). Also see trolls and gants in the mix. ANd while they have a good variety of war mahines, my favorite in the game period has to be the Doom Diver Catapult simply because its a slingshot that flings goblins at the enemy.
Brettonia: Another army that didn't get alot of updates until they video games, but they also had the first leaked images released. Knights, king Aurther's court, dark age France, chivalry all taken up to 11. Some of the best cavalry in the game, allowing you to get the most bang for your buck. From knights of the realm that have earned their spurs, knight errents that havn't proven their worth enough and therefor are looking for monsters and strong enemies to fight to earn their parchment of land and knightly status, questing knights out in search of the Grail, and Grail Knights that have and are made super human for it. We even have nights riding Pegasuses, giving them air cavalry to take on enemies as they see fit, namely shooting units like gunners and archers, and warmachines. Peasants are all treated lke crap, and while not the greatest fighters will hold their own pretty good for spear fodder. Still, their archers are pretty good and they have the Teebuchet, which is a catapult that can deal some major damage to blocks of enemies. It will be interesting to see how they do them.
Tomb Kings: This is going to be an interesting case as they were one of the first if not the first army to get an update for 8th edition, but they also quickly fell out of the meta. So very much a screwed over army. This said, they have potential. They are all Egyptian mummies, and unlike the Vampire Counts, seem to be actually loyal to their Kings instead of enslaved to them. That said, they are still petty tyrants off their era, and now they are back in the realm of the living want to go conquering again (that and maybe get a few of their buddies out of the Empire Museums). THey actualy have shooting units, they will hold their ground like all undead but if they loose too much in combat will start falling appart (literaly) from the sheer force of will. THey will be the only army with chariots that can go in ranks, so this alone should make them interesting. They also have a number of constucts, such as ogre sized statures that come to life and attack enemies, giant scorpions that will pop out of the ground where you least expect it, and giants made of bone and stone that get more attacks the more they swing their scimitars at you. GW screwed them over once, so it will be
interesting to see if they do them right this time.
Other armies that will get the PDF treatment for now are:
Dark Elves: Evil Elves that are the puppy kickers of the game. Their knights ride murder dinosaurs, they have hydras, and they have a bunch of heavy hitting elites.
Lizardmen: Aztek Dinosaur People with some of their heroes named after Dinobots.
Skaven: Another comic relief army. Always Chaotic Evil Rat Man that have the numbers to overwhelm the world, but they have such chronic backstabbing disorder they are their own worse enemy. One part wet yourself laughing because they are quite funny, especially in the novels, but also wet yourself scared because they can be frightening. THey come in mass, and even have four clans of specialists: Syer that does mad scientist machines and have guns that shoot radioactive bullets, chain guns that do that, mortars that doo that, cannons that shoot death beam lightning, and the Doom Wheel: A mix of hamster wheel, steamroller, and insanity. Clan Maulder that has all the monsters like Rat Ogres and the Hellpit abomination. Eshcen that is all about ninjas. And Clan Pestilence that are religious zealots all about causing the spread of disease.
Chaos Dwarve: Dwarves but evil, with lots of orc and goblin slaves and worship a greater demon.
Ogres: What they lac in brains they make up for brawn. They have cause damage just by charging into you, and while you will mostly likely get the first hit in...you may not survive when its their turn to hit you. Back when you could take mercenary units in 6th eddition, you could take a bunch of them as your own dogs of war, and I had a squad of four Leadbelchers that used cannons like they were giant blunderbusses. The Maneaters, the eleite ones, are going to be a colorful bunch as they went all around the war fighting for other people and take on their cultures so you may have a Arabian Nights one fighting along side a Pirate and a Musketeer in the same unit.
Vampire Counts: Vampires that lord over armie of undead. Unlike most wiards, these guys will rip out your spine and beat your friends to death with it. Logs of zombies, ghosts, skeletons, and ghouls.
Daemons of Chaos: The A is silent. This is the demonic hoard of chaos. horn is all about hitting hard, Tzzeentch casting spells, Slannesh Speed and precision, and Nurgle taking a hit. THey should have some fun one. THe chariots of Slannesh look like they can tear up ranks of warriors pretty good. the Screamers of Tzeentch, flying sting ray looking creatures, attack by flying over a unit and slashing their prey apart (think the flying soldier bugs from the Starship Troopers movie). Khorn has a Belrog. ANd Nurgl has the Beast of Nurgle: A playful monstrosity that acts like a puppy and can't understand why its new friends are dead.
The flagship game for Games Workshop was Warhammer Fantasy. It started as a Dungeouns and Dragons Clone, but as of Second Edition went to its roots to table top wargamming. Its a kitchen sink of fantasy, with this being the reason orcs and goblins tend to be green in fiction.
However it didn't do so well financially in the last few years it was around, especially when compared to the cash cow that is Warhammer 40,000 so decided to end the franchise. They would still have the novels and what not, but they wanted to move on to Age of Sigmar which had its problems. AOS is fun, but some players saw it as a cash grab and alot of us try to forget GW's attempt at ending Warhammer Fantasy with a bang, The End Times (long story short a number of characters were given character assassinations, while others were given undignified ends for how major they are in their given factions).
But they are bringing it back. About 9 armies have been announced to get books, which will at the bottom.
My next fe possts will be what I think of the various armies they are starting out with, the prose and cones of the different units, how to make them work and how to beat them, and what stuff from AOS and Total War they can add into it, as well as other ideas I might have. And concerns I have with them. I would like your thoughts on this from both Warhammer fans that also have their own Two cents to pitch in and help illuminate this more, and none warhammer fans that have questions and their own ideas.
While this is all exciting for me come Appril, I have to temper this with my experience with GW.
1. This will be expensive. There is a reason alot of use go to thingverse or etsy or third party companies. GW is infamous for if they can make it they will make it price. Despite what, 2 recessions since I started playing in the mid 2000's, and a plague, they have not given up on this. Even as they go to cheaper materials (lead to pewter, pewter to plastic) and even as they get factories to different parts of the world, it will coast you an arm and a leg. You will be wanting to field twenty guys for one unit but you will be paying the price of a new video game and all its DLC. Part of the cost can be mitigated with starter boxes, but its alot of upfront cast for a game you might not be committed to. Made worse is its part of their Forge World Branch, which do their very expensive stuff. Highly detailed and often over powered stuff in the game, but pricy. To compare this with say reaper: A Pewter mini of the same size and grade will set me back 5 or 10 bucks, and when they switch to plastic and resin the price dropped dramatically. Its 18 to 40 for the same thing with GW.
2. Its not the first time they made and dropped a game before, and it can happen again.
3. Still bitter about the End Times.
Empire: Reissuance Holy Roman Empire with some eliminants of in tech to Napoleonic War Erra and even American Civil War. Well Balanced human army and the face of the game. Generals are famous for riding on griffons. The Steam Tank and Hellblaster Volley Guns are its most notorious units for how destructive they are.
Warriors of Chaos: Heavy Vikings, they are a Heavy Metal Album given form. Frank Frezetta's Death Dealer is most likely their daddy, and anti paladins wish they could be them. While there are Conan esk barbarians, the namesake and where alot of units fall under are heavily armored walking tanks that are just a few points from being hero level characters, and the ones that are hero and lord level can punch a monster in the face and win. They can be chaos undivided, or take one of the aspects of the four CHaos Gods
Khorn: Likes Honor, bravery, and honesty. Also a god of murder, anger, and hate. "KILL! MAIM! BURN!" and "Blood for the Blood God!" come from this guy. See lots of reds and Brass in his color motifs, and he will be the hammer of the army.
Slannesh: The Prince of Pleasure, She Who Thirst, the reason we know this is not going to be a game that is Pegggy 16/M for Mature rating in video games. While they like the creativity, art, refinement, and love...they also have a thing for lust, gluttony, extreme self indulgence, and their penchant for trying new things get to the point a Cenobite from the Hellraiser franchise would tell this god to take it down a notch. Also have to wonder if the LGBTQ+ community ever took Umbridge with them as Gender is whatever suits their mood that second, and alot more stuff. Lots of Pinks, purples and florescent colors.
Tzentch: I think the T is silent, but you never know with a guy who personifies the meme "Just as planned." Heck, you might have seen one of them with his greater daemons, a big bird person with flowing robes. A god of knowledge, the pursuit of knowledge, change, hope, and of course Magic you'd think maybe he's on the up and up. Then again, that was just as planned as Treachery and lies are in his domain, as the search for darkest corners of knowledge, ad his change can be anything from usurping a good ruler to mutations that turn you into an eldritch abomination (they are called the Forsaken and the Chaos Spawn). Really like blues, but he doesn't mind pink and a few other colors to crop up.
Nurgle: A jolly fellow that loves his followers so much he is affectionately called "Pappa Nurgle." That said he looks like a towering diseased ridden tumor, a his domain is despair, fear, death, and most of all: Disease. His plagues ravaged entire civilizations. That said he is also a lovable goof, that likes a good hearty joke, and the despair gives way to stubborn resilience; those that survive his "gifts" become very tanky in the amount of pain and damage they can take, and those that do not become his legions of plauge bearer demons. Lots of Green and other colors associated with rot and decay.
Beasts of Chaos: The redheaded stepchildren of chaos, both in lore and how GW treated them. I think they finally got the love they deserved from development when Warhammer: Total War 2 came, and Age of Sigmar. Lots of satyrs, minitours, and lot of monsters. GOres and Ungores are mostly goats and minotours are mostly bulls, despite they could be alot of different animals, and then they attach horns. What they lack in armor they make up for in tenacity, ablities to ambush, and a large nuber of monsters. Giants, Giant Minotours, cyclopes that act as mobile catapults, ad more.
High Elves: ALot of Greek and Roman influence in the look. Long lived and prideful, they have alot of elite units, great speed and accuracy in attacks. I was a dark elf player, but even I can see they have alot of potential and fun. Chariots pulled by lions, phenoxies, three different types of dragons people can ride, lots of cavalry, and some of the best magic in the game not Tzeentch. Like Empire and Warriors of Chaos, they can be pretty good for new players. I will be interested in sseeing how they update them.
Wood Elves: The best shooting units in the game, period! Most of the army are Legolas' understudies when it comes to their skill with a bow, and Tree Beard. There are other units, including some decent monster hunters, but they are famous for their bowmanship for a reason. The forest is their home and while it can hinder other units, it makes them stronger. A good thing as most of them are either unarmored or lightly armored units. Of the tree folk, you have dryads that come inn skirmishers that rip foes limb from limbs, ogre sied Tree Kin, and the Treemen which, well, if you seen The Two Towers or played D&D you get the idea. I can see some learning curve for new players, but they will be fun.
Dwarves: They work hard, drink hard, play hard, drink hard, fight hard, drink hard. The working-class folk, with Viking some Scottish. They are probably one of the few armies that will have range units that can handle close combat. What they lack in speed in movement and initiative, they make up for in toughness, and enough bravery to not want to leave the fight. Like high elves, this will an army of elites. And holy crap, if the artillery on the Empire list is going to be a problem, this army will destroy you if you do not. And they have some good melee units as well, with Hammerers being the hammer and Iron Breakers being the Anvil that can tank most hits. Heck, they have gyrocopters as war machines and Greek Fire. They may not have magic in spell form per say, they will have the best variety of magical weapons, many can be taken by multiple characters due to the rune system allowing you to mix and match different runes for different effects.
Orcs and Goblins: Orc are what Raider fans get accused of being and what Philadelphia Eagle Fans turn out to be for those in the USA like me, and for those into the World Sport: Football Hooligans. Goblins and Squeeker rage embodied. And while they may be terrifying in lore, they are very funny. Cockney accented brutes that like a good scrap. Orcs hit hard and are hard to hit, coming in normal, Savage (cave men) and Black Orc (Urikah on steroids) varieties and will go to battle on Boars and boar pulle dchariots, adn even ride wyverns. Goblins come in mass, the swarm or hoard army, and what they lack in skill of courage they make up for in shere numbers. THey can ride wolves, spiders the size of wolves that can ride on stuff, wolf pulled chariots, spiders that can get as big as Rhinoes, and even a spider that is big enough to step over a house. Others, the night goblins, lack courage but make up for in crazyness. They will throw nets to hld people, unleash PCP addled goblins swingign the ball and chains used in the Hammerthrow at enemy units, acting as a living blender, and go to battle with beasts called squigs (like a beachball shaped and size beasty with squat legs that help it bounce around, and a maw of teeth that make up most of the body). Also see trolls and gants in the mix. ANd while they have a good variety of war mahines, my favorite in the game period has to be the Doom Diver Catapult simply because its a slingshot that flings goblins at the enemy.
Brettonia: Another army that didn't get alot of updates until they video games, but they also had the first leaked images released. Knights, king Aurther's court, dark age France, chivalry all taken up to 11. Some of the best cavalry in the game, allowing you to get the most bang for your buck. From knights of the realm that have earned their spurs, knight errents that havn't proven their worth enough and therefor are looking for monsters and strong enemies to fight to earn their parchment of land and knightly status, questing knights out in search of the Grail, and Grail Knights that have and are made super human for it. We even have nights riding Pegasuses, giving them air cavalry to take on enemies as they see fit, namely shooting units like gunners and archers, and warmachines. Peasants are all treated lke crap, and while not the greatest fighters will hold their own pretty good for spear fodder. Still, their archers are pretty good and they have the Teebuchet, which is a catapult that can deal some major damage to blocks of enemies. It will be interesting to see how they do them.
Tomb Kings: This is going to be an interesting case as they were one of the first if not the first army to get an update for 8th edition, but they also quickly fell out of the meta. So very much a screwed over army. This said, they have potential. They are all Egyptian mummies, and unlike the Vampire Counts, seem to be actually loyal to their Kings instead of enslaved to them. That said, they are still petty tyrants off their era, and now they are back in the realm of the living want to go conquering again (that and maybe get a few of their buddies out of the Empire Museums). THey actualy have shooting units, they will hold their ground like all undead but if they loose too much in combat will start falling appart (literaly) from the sheer force of will. THey will be the only army with chariots that can go in ranks, so this alone should make them interesting. They also have a number of constucts, such as ogre sized statures that come to life and attack enemies, giant scorpions that will pop out of the ground where you least expect it, and giants made of bone and stone that get more attacks the more they swing their scimitars at you. GW screwed them over once, so it will be
interesting to see if they do them right this time.
Other armies that will get the PDF treatment for now are:
Dark Elves: Evil Elves that are the puppy kickers of the game. Their knights ride murder dinosaurs, they have hydras, and they have a bunch of heavy hitting elites.
Lizardmen: Aztek Dinosaur People with some of their heroes named after Dinobots.
Skaven: Another comic relief army. Always Chaotic Evil Rat Man that have the numbers to overwhelm the world, but they have such chronic backstabbing disorder they are their own worse enemy. One part wet yourself laughing because they are quite funny, especially in the novels, but also wet yourself scared because they can be frightening. THey come in mass, and even have four clans of specialists: Syer that does mad scientist machines and have guns that shoot radioactive bullets, chain guns that do that, mortars that doo that, cannons that shoot death beam lightning, and the Doom Wheel: A mix of hamster wheel, steamroller, and insanity. Clan Maulder that has all the monsters like Rat Ogres and the Hellpit abomination. Eshcen that is all about ninjas. And Clan Pestilence that are religious zealots all about causing the spread of disease.
Chaos Dwarve: Dwarves but evil, with lots of orc and goblin slaves and worship a greater demon.
Ogres: What they lac in brains they make up for brawn. They have cause damage just by charging into you, and while you will mostly likely get the first hit in...you may not survive when its their turn to hit you. Back when you could take mercenary units in 6th eddition, you could take a bunch of them as your own dogs of war, and I had a squad of four Leadbelchers that used cannons like they were giant blunderbusses. The Maneaters, the eleite ones, are going to be a colorful bunch as they went all around the war fighting for other people and take on their cultures so you may have a Arabian Nights one fighting along side a Pirate and a Musketeer in the same unit.
Vampire Counts: Vampires that lord over armie of undead. Unlike most wiards, these guys will rip out your spine and beat your friends to death with it. Logs of zombies, ghosts, skeletons, and ghouls.
Daemons of Chaos: The A is silent. This is the demonic hoard of chaos. horn is all about hitting hard, Tzzeentch casting spells, Slannesh Speed and precision, and Nurgle taking a hit. THey should have some fun one. THe chariots of Slannesh look like they can tear up ranks of warriors pretty good. the Screamers of Tzeentch, flying sting ray looking creatures, attack by flying over a unit and slashing their prey apart (think the flying soldier bugs from the Starship Troopers movie). Khorn has a Belrog. ANd Nurgl has the Beast of Nurgle: A playful monstrosity that acts like a puppy and can't understand why its new friends are dead.
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